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Ashley-Cooper's father was the heir apparent to the earldom and its subsidiary titles, but he predeceased his father. His death made his son next in the line of succession. In November , the 10th Earl of Shaftesbury went missing while in France , prompting an international police investigation. His remains were found at the bottom of a remote ravine in the foothills of the French Alps five months after his death. Investigations revealed that he was murdered by his brother-in-law during an argument regarding a divorce from his wife, Jamila M'Barek , both of whom were convicted of his murder.
He was named after his father, as was tradition for firstborn sons in the Ashley-Cooper family. As a child, his primary pursuits outside of getting an education, included mountain climbing and skiing. He also expressed a love of music, which continued into adulthood with his service as chairman of the London Philharmonic Orchestra from to Lord Ashley's mother decided to move back to her native France with the children.
The 9th Earl of Shaftesbury, prior to his death, invested and arranged financial matters so that his heirs would avoid death duties. When his grandfather died, the newly titled 10th Earl of Shaftesbury came into a vast fortune of the Shaftesbury estates and other properties, including the family's 17th-century home and large estate in Dorset, as well as residences in Hove , London , Versailles and the French Riviera.
By the s, the wealth of the family estate remained well worth millions. The small village of Wimborne St Giles rests within the family estate itself. The Ashley family arrived in Dorset, originally from Wiltshire, where they owned the manor of Ashley, since the 11th century.
Buildings recorded on the Grade I list include those of "exceptional interest, sometimes considered to be internationally important". Shaftesbury received honours and awards for his conservationist work. His generosity extended to the family's property in Ulster. According to Philip Rymer, manager of the Shaftesbury Estates, the 10th Earl of Shaftesbury had also put quite a bit of energy into trying to save an endangered species of bat.
Shaftesbury served as president of the Shaftesbury Society , which the 7th Earl of Shaftesbury had founded as Ragged Schools in The charity provides free education, as well as food, clothing, lodging and other home missionary services for those too poor to pay. In , the Shaftesbury Society was merged with John Grooms Crippleage, reorganising under the new name of Livability. The benevolence of the 10th Earl of Shaftesbury also extended to the ownership and use of Lough Neagh , which is the largest freshwater lake in the British Isles and ranks among the 40 largest lakes of Europe.
Five of the six counties of Northern Ireland have shores on the lough only County Fermanagh does not , and its area is split among them. Although a member of the House of Lords , until the passage of the House of Lords Act in , the 10th Earl of Shaftesbury rarely attended.
His maiden speech was made on 10 November , the day before the act was passed an came into force. At this time, Shaftesbury made an eight-minute presentation in a debate regarding arts and sport, a portion of which is presented below.
The Earl of Clancarty rose to ask Her Majesty's Government how they believe the arts and sport relate to the issue of "social exclusion". Shaftesbury was married three times. He expressed his attraction to foreign women. At Eton, he wrote an article for the college magazine in which he described English debutantes as "round-shouldered, unsophisticated garglers of pink champagne".
Shaftesbury met his Italian-born first wife, Bianca de Paolis, during a skiing holiday. She had previously been married to the American film producer, Jack Le Vien. Shaftesbury and de Paolis were declared husband and wife at the Westminster Register Office in front of a few friends, with none of his family in attendance.
They divorced 10 years later, on grounds of his adultery with an unnamed woman. The couple had no children. Frederic Casella is a television producer and director in Great Britain, while his sister, Cecilia is an attorney living in New York City. The second marriage of Shaftesbury was more successful than the first, producing two children.
The death of his mother, however, had a profound effect on Shaftesbury, affecting his relationship with his wife and children. In August , our mother had died of cancer in tragic circumstances while we were all enjoying ourselves at my eldest son's wedding. For my brother, her death was a catastrophe.
She had been his protector and greatest admirer since the death of our father in , when Anthony was eight and I was six. When our mother died, it was as though my brother had become an orphan at age Without her, he felt emotionally bereft. He lost his grip on reality. At one point, he had bought a flat in Versailles, and had entirely recreated two rooms from our late mother's house. He had used all the furniture, books and knick-knacks of our childhood in Paris. It was a bit much.
In , Shaftesbury unexpectedly moved out of the Manor House and divorced his wife. His wealth attracted a variety of individuals, willing and ready to take advantage of his generosity.
A friend described him as becoming a "philanthropist who specialised in rescuing lap dancers" while his French lawyer, Thierry Bensaude, more diplomatically referred to him as "a philosophical adventurer in society". In early , an article in the Daily Telegraph described the year-old lord, "dressed in leather trousers and open-necked, pink silk shirts, with a gold chain draped around his neck".
The 10th Earl of Shaftesbury became a familiar figure in some of the nightspots on the French Riviera. He was known for his black leather trousers, pink shirts, and large red and black eyeglasses. He had a habit of flashing his money around as he bought drinks for a wide variety of female companions. She was one of seven children born in Paris to a Tunisian mother and Moroccan father.
They were married on 5 November , at Hilversum in the Netherlands. By April , the couple were separated when Lord Shaftesbury started a new relationship with a young mother of two named Nadia Orche, who has been described as a "club hostess from Cannes" and a "Moroccan prostitute". She described him as "an attentive and generous man". On 3 November , Shaftesbury arrived in Nice, France, scheduled to meet with his estranged wife. On 4 November, he visited her at her home on Avenue Mareschal Koenig.
The following day, after checking out of the hotel, Shaftesbury vanished without a trace. From that point forward, the whereabouts of the 10th Earl of Shaftesbury were unknown until April of the following year. It was normal for Shaftesbury to occasionally disappear for a few days from time to time, so no one, other than his girlfriend was initially concerned with his disappearance. I was worried," she says, "I called again.
I was sure that something bad had happened. On 15 November , Shaftesbury's Nice-based lawyer, Thierry Bensaude reported him missing, after being contacted by his girlfriend, Orche. The peer divided his time between the Riviera and a home in Hove, East Sussex. He had been due to return home on 10 November. Bensaude and Orche both expressed fears for his safety. Shaftesbury had been taking legal action in relation to the theft of some family antiques and artwork.
Some friends and acquaintances mentioned that he had complained of money problems, so they surmised that his disappearance may have had something to do with the theft and financial loss. On 18 November, the French police publicly appealed for information leading to Shaftesbury's whereabouts and on 22 November, they opened a formal criminal inquiry. Anthony Nils, eldest son of the 10th Earl of Shaftesbury was regularly in touch with the police following his father's disappearance, and travelled to Nice to confer with French authorities there.
The Rev David Paskins of the Wimborne St Giles parish church said, "Everyone is anxious and concerned — it's the unknown that is worrying. Lady Shaftesbury [Christina] is very concerned.
Family and concerned individuals initially feared that the 10th Earl of Shaftesbury had been kidnapped by Russian or North African gangsters who were plotting to steal his fortune. Thierry Bensaude stated that Shaftesbury is "extremely generous to his friends and may have been taken advantage of". The theory was that some of his more disreputable acquaintances had decided to kidnap the peer and were now engaged in some scheme to force him into signing away part of his inherited wealth.
Commander Brunache said, "We took the case very seriously. There were a number of possible explanations for his disappearance. He could have decided to disappear, a suicide, or he could have been the victim of a crime. There were several possibilities and we were exploring all of them. The French police agreed with Cox, due to the lack of ransom demands or signs of fraud.
Whether dead or alive, there were still no clues as to the whereabouts of the 10th Earl of Shaftesbury. In February , his wife Jamila M'Barek was admitted to a psychiatric hospital, where she had an emotional breakdown and began confessing to her involvement in her husband's death. When interviewed by police, she claimed that Shaftesbury had been beaten to death by her brother during a fight at her flat in Cannes.
Shaftesbury and his third wife had separated in April and divorce proceedings had been set in motion. Shaftesbury wanted to end this arrangement and the marriage, so that he could marry his new girlfriend. While Shaftesbury was discussing his desire with his wife, a fight broke out between him and his wife's brother, Mohammed M'Barek.
Lord Shaftesbury died during the fight, when Mohammed strangled him, breaking his neck. According to Jamila M'Barek, her brother placed her husband's body in the boot of his BMW and dumped it in an unknown place.
She was arrested on 25 February and her brother was arrested by German police the following day at his home in Munich. He was later extradited to France, continuing to deny his involvement and knowledge of the location of Lord Shaftesbury's body. The police were led to the area by examining the last-known signal from Lord Shaftesbury's cellphone records.
After a two-day search, they found a decomposed body that had been partly eaten by animals, hidden in the undergrowth next to the riverbed. A French police spokesman announced, "As far as we are concerned, there is absolutely no doubt it is him. In June , pre-trial proceedings began in Grasse , before the investigating Magistrate , Catherine Bonnici.
The proceedings were part of the French investigative process that is used to determine whether prosecutors have enough evidence to send a case to trial.
During the first week of June, the court travelled to the site where the peer's body was found./p>
Retrieved 28 March Miranda Kerr heads down the runway in Paris wearing over-the-top animal style gillet". Listen to Supermodel's Debut Single". Retrieved 25 April Miranda Kerr flaunts her sizzling cleavage on the cover of Vogue Taiwan's May issue". Retrieved 20 June Miranda Kerr for Vogue Australia". Retrieved 13 July Archived from the original on 20 June Retrieved 18 September Retrieved 21 November Retrieved 27 January International Business Times Australia. Retrieved 26 May Miranda Kerr displays her flawless complexion and long legs as she stars on the cover of Elle France".
Retrieved 28 May Retrieved 19 June Retrieved 29 June Retrieved 16 September The Huffington Post Australia. Retrieved 20 February Retrieved 19 August Retrieved 5 February Retrieved 30 November Retrieved 3 January Archived from the original on 2 November Retrieved 2 November Retrieved 13 December Retrieved 6 November Miranda Kerr single but love may Bloom.
Retrieved 27 September The Suspects Wore Louboutins. Orlando Bloom and Miranda Kerr are engaged. Retrieved 7 July Archived from the original on 29 August Retrieved 19 January Baby Flynn arrived on Jan. Retrieved 25 October Retrieved 2 May New York Daily News.
Retrieved 20 July Retrieved 15 November Miranda, Evan and Flynn are looking forward to welcoming the newest member of their family. Retrieved 22 August Retrieved 21 August Kerr also took the opportunity to clarify her religion, which has often been misreported.
Orlando is," she told The Telegraph. The Australian model says she is Christian despite previous reports that she is a practicing Buddhist and believes in the power of forgiveness even in the "little things like looking at someone the wrong way, or snapping at someone.
I would just like your thoughts Andrew, because I am having some difficulty with the "women have to live with it" I haven't found the answer. I think that men act this way for three reasons: We are strongly inclined to by our natural drive for sex - a difficult temptation in any circumstance 2.
We are weak and short-sighted i. Women let us If you've read much of this blog you'll realize that I am trying my best to correct point 3. Hi Andrew, Thank you for your reply, all though I feel you have not answered the questions I had asked. I have read much of your blog, and yet Do women let men behave like that? A very Noble attempt on your part to try and help, but I think, your blog neglects the needs of the woman Implying this condones poor male behaviour You are looking to find a 'soul-mate' someone to fulfill your own inadequacies Men act this way cause they love womens bodies and love sex That's just the way it is BUT if i could get someone young and gorgeous i def would If everyone had a more relaxed attitude to promiscuity everyone would get std's and teen pregnancy would increase.
So u'd rather there be more sluts around the world so u can be a pig. And don't mistake self value and a woman who knows what she wants for neediness! Its guys like you that are the reason why young girls go for older men, older woman are divorced and std's and pregnancy levels are higher than before. You completely devalue woman and expect way to much coming from a guy when we already give you more than you diserve!
My boyfriend who 20 is more of a man then you. And sex is sooooo boring with your wife, does she know your saying this? I bet she doesn't! Us ladies should stick together against men like you.
Without us girls on earth you men wouldn't even get any sex, you'd all be fuckin eachother up the ass!!! And sit there and say we have deal with it. The only thing we'll deal with is your ass out the door! Girl you need to throw in the towel Cause you obviously weren't cut out to interact with humans intimately in a positive manner. I am a loyal reader of your blog, please keep up the wonderful work!
About the sexual stuff: I've read a few books by Tracy Cox, and one thing she pointed out was the stuff that makes good sex. I do agree with this, and I think sexual experience matter mostly up to a certain point. A girl with 10 partners is better than a virgin, but a girl with 30 is not necessary that much better than one with At least that's how I feel about men, is it true? I know that to some extent, or at least from experience, the physical attractiveness of a woman contributes to whether a man wants to have sex with her and how good he finds it.
I wonder how it adds up - would you rather have sex with a woman who is a 9 on the scale and her skill of blowjob-giving is a 6, or a 6 on the scale whose skill is a 9?
I don't know how men would make up that scale though, they have different preferences for a BJ too. I ask because a guy told me that it gives a certain thrill to get a BJ from a girl that is physically particularly facially very attractive. I know when you say "experienced" you don't just mean partners, but confidence and open-mindedness. But do partners count a certain point?
Or can a 25 year old who is open minded and experimental in bed be just as good as a 35 year old who's had a large amount of partners? Very good help on this. I might even knock that number ten down to 3 or 4. The next real jump in experience and it dwarfs the first comes from being with one person for a long time. Married women will back me up here I am sure.
I agree with your analysis that the real jump in experience comes from being with a partner long term. I will take the latter over the former any day! Both men and women need to build up their level of ease with one partner in order to feel comfortable enough to express themselves and fully explore all facets of their sexuality.
Having said that, it depends on the particular couple And now they have broken up too! I think there is a lot of truth to this external attractiveness issue. I also think that - at this point - there is a certain type of women who are looking for younger men.
Maybe partly because they might be aware that younger men often see them s sex only, but this still take the risk. My mother once said she would never, ever be with a younger man my dad is 17 years older than her and she emphasized how other people would look at her.
I think that's important to a lot of women. I am the one who posted below who is 39 dating a 31 year old and I would agree with you that there is a stigma. My brother is 37 dating a 30 yo and it is never an issue. As far as younger men looking at women who are older than they are for sex, we are doing the same thing!
In the past 4 years I have been in relationships with men ranging in age from and I can tell you that my sex drive and endurance veer toward the younger set. Men over the age of 40 just physiologically do not have the same sex drive or stamina.
Do like your mother did. I have a serious issue with this as for example I could imagine some moms having once widely held opinion that racial intermarriage is a road to failure.
Perhaps it's better to not do as good old mom did. And speaking of moms, or in this case grannies, dear blog participants please direct your attention to the phenomenon of Ernestine Shepherd. As far as Kutcher Moore marriage dissolution goes, haven't there been no couples who started by the old fashion book with younger woman and older man only to break down over the 7 year itch issue.
Times change and I know of young men who did marry older women and did not regret it. As for the unmarried women I would not want to choose between the guy who goes to the gym and the guy who goes to the library.
Times are changing and women do not need to marry for security. Do both or accept that there will be a complementary guy in the equation. As society changes the pressures on genders change as well, as do the possibilities. Glad someone brought up Ernestine Shepherd. I am 55 , happily married for 28 years to a wonderful man, mother of three grown daughters. I am also a medical professional. Several years ago I got a trainer, lst 15 pounds, started weight training, then regular boot camp classes.
My point is that I firmly believe that at age 55 I look a lot "hotter" than many 20 something's with muffin tops and couch potato mentalities. Having studied endocrinology in depth recently, I Am fairly sure that I was a high androgen female growing up, judging by finger index ratio and other factors. I was very athletic, small breasted, more active than high estrogen females with big boobs, low waist to hip ratio.
Men are biologically attracted to these high estrogen females for reproductive reasons. But high estrogen females are bitchier, harder to live with, get fat and stay fat with childbearing, and their big boobs, well we all know what happens there.
High estrogen females also have lower libido than their smaller breasted higher androgen counterparts, even more so when on oral contraceptives.
It is fairly well known that Marilyn Monroe, for example, the prototype high estrogen female, was lousy in bed. They Are better ovulators but we are hornier and a lot more fun, sporty, and adventurous in general.
And we age one HECK of a lot better than our big boobed small waisted big butted counterparts. I also agree with older women being more interesting, more open. We are much more comfortable in our skins, have great stories. This is not to say men should not be attracted to younger women. That is inescapable biological programming, the reason there are 9 billion humans on the planet. But don't tell me that at age 55 I am sexually invisible. It's a lot of work to keep up your body, but I love it.
Then I will go home and ravish my wonderful husband. I am 39 and currently dating a man who is I never thought that I would be attracted to a younger man, but must say that the sex is hot and I find his energy much more aligned with my own. We have an open relationship as I realize that he is not interested in settling down and wants to explore all his options, so to speak.
That being said, we are each other's primary partners and are committed to keeping the emotional intimacy within our relationship alone. As far as aging and beauty are concerned, I think that if you are in the range when you are younger and you take care of yourself, it is not an issue.
I am approached my men 10 to 15 years younger than I am who assume I am in my late 20s. I realize that I am probably an outlier in this regard, but I also live in an area where women in their 40s are in better shape than most women in their 20s in other parts of the country. I am divorced and have two kids and have zero interest in a long term commitment or having more children.
I think that men in their 30s who are not yet ready to settle down find this refreshing as most younger women are at the point in their lives where they are ready to settle down. Removing that pressure makes the relationship much more fun and lighthearted.
The main drawback is that it is impossible to integrate our lives and take it to another level. He will eventually want a family of his own and I want someone who has a lifestyle that is similar to mine. It is can be fun in the meantime as long as communication is strong and both parties have reasonable expectations.
Great post and would love your blog. Kudos for telling it like it is! Forgive me if I'm wrong, but you come off cold and machine-like. Falling in love with someone "happens. I admire a steel trap mind, but not when the heart is trapped inside. When you fall in love, and maintain a mature love, wishing you had been with other women as you both age does not even enter the picture this is different from the very human emotion of simply finding someone else attractive.
It is counter to love and would be disrespectful to the most important person in your life. It's the way you would want your father to feel about your mother. At least, I would hope.
It's no sin being a confirmed bachelor. Have you ever been in therapy? Just for kicks, you may want to look at your relationship to love itself.
Thanks for putting yourself out there to have great discussions like this. So I think we both need to take each other's opinions with a grain of salt. The strength of the male sex drive is not something that any woman understands, any more than a man understands the depth of a woman's emotions. If you think that love which we experience to a lesser degree than women completely arrests our sex drive or our desire to be with multiple partners which we experience to a greater degree than women , you are being naive.
You are probably right that love reduces a man's desire for other women, but I suggest that it does so only partially - very partially. I just commented above as well, but I will have to agree with you that most women do not understand the power of the male sex drive. That being said, as a 39 yo woman my sex drive has never been higher nor have I felt more confident. Older men can simply not keep up!
I see a lot of my girlfriends in their 40s who are married to men closer to them in age who complain all the time about not being sexually satisfied because their husbands are not as interested as they used to be. As a disclaimer, these are not women who have "let themselves go" and in most cases look better than the men. The grass is already always greener on the other side; a man doesn't need an age disparity contributing to that effect when his woman starts losing her initial shine.
I want to settle down with a man who is not only going to be able to keep up with me sexually, but wil match my vitality for life as well. I find that a lot of the older men I have dated are jaded having suffered through bitter relationships and are often even more terrified to commit than a man 4 or 5 years my junior.
My ideal partner right now would be a man between who is a single dad, emotionally mature, professional and wants to live out a fun, playful lifestyle. I would want to take things very slowly at first and hope that it would eventually develop into a loving, long term commitment. I've heard men say they do not have interest in anyone else than a particular girl, but in those cases they have been either a very young and inexperienced or b very infatuated.
Is it possible that men can experience this feeling of not wanting anyone else while they are infatuated but that the lust for other women will slowly increase as the passion runs out?
That very loved-up phase when you get butterflies and have very passionate sex is estimated to last maximum 4 years. Do most men feel an intense desire to sleep with other women even during that phase? I can say as a female, I do have a desire for other men when in love, it is not so strong though, as my desire for the one man overruns it. When the infatuation phase is gone I might look around, but it is not so much that I miss another man than that I miss being infatuated and miss the passionate phase.
It's not first and foremost about sexual diversity. It is the period after that initial high that I was referring to. Even if love remains at that point, men by nature want multiple partners.
Ask any one who you trust to give you an honest answer. Of course he will want to stay monogomous because he knows he will lose the girl he loves if he doesn't so would I ; but I am calling bullshit on any guy that claims he wouldn't want to bang other women at least once in a while to fulfil his purely physical desires.
In fact, a glance here and there is probably all that we are tempted to, very little more - and it may be less in many cases. I'm the one you said has never been a man. I very much am, a happily hetero one at that. Does that change your answer? Scott, Yes, but only in the sense that I was obviously wrong about assuming you were female.
Not all men have the same magnitude sex drive, nor do we all share the same level of sexual ambition either - in the sense that some of us are more worried than others about getting the hottest and best woman we can get. I have seen all kinds of variety on this. I happen to be very ambitious in this regard, and was stating my opinion. There are certainly men out there that are less worried about finding a smoking hot wife. They might be deeper than me, which is fine. But more relevant to your point: I am talking about how much looks matter before a man allows himself to fall in love.
I think these are very different things, and I think looks and projections into the future about them matter much more in the early stages of an encounter or relationship.
So I guess I am arguing against you in two ways: I would suggest that you veer off before love takes hold, perhaps because you are afraid of intimacy. Not unusual in a 27 year old.
I'm certainly not perfect in that regard, but have you explored your capacity for intimacy? Intimacy merits fear, though I don't think mine is unreasonable.
I've sent you an e-mail. Oh, please post that e-mail here! Or post something about fear of intimacy. That's an interesting topic! Honest reply - do you think a lot more men cheat than women are aware of?
And do you think a great majority of men will cheat if the risk of getting caught is practically non-existent? I assume you don't have children? I think the main reason why most married couples' sex lives are slowing down is because of their daily duties, taking care of children etc.
And as husband and wife there is a lot less of that excitement and thrill you have when dating someone non-exclusively as you say the guy you're seeing doesn't want to settle. I hear some women say they've reached a sexual peak in their thirties, but I still find that to be mostly single women especially if you have chosen not to look for a husband and children, that gives freedom to do whatever you want.
I'm not saying that is due to wives becoming less physically attractive, it might just be the daily routines killing the passion. Hard to say, not having a very good gage myself of "what women are aware of. That being said, I've also heard of wives being skeptical about their husband's fidelity when I know for a fact that their husband hadn't fooled around in the slightest It is really difficult to talk about "mens'" capacity for cheating, because it is affected by so many factors - the stability of the relationship, the attractiveness of the potential mistress, the man's moral beliefs, his sex drive, how much of a risk-taker he is, etc.
Then there are things like whether or not his role models cheated, his national culture Americans cheat a lot less than other nationalities in my experience, which is actually not as small as you might think for a year-old , or even something like his fear of contracting STDs.
I don't have an answer for you because I don't think it is possible to generalize about this in the same way it is possible to generalize about how men perceive female attractiveness over time for example.
She even had a higher sex drive, a lot of the time he didn't want to have sex with her. In the end he slept with someone else. Then he begged her to stay as he didn't want the relationship to end. It's a mystery to me. One comment about the external attractiveness for older women: I read in a study that the exact age women start to really look older is 35 or 33 days after your 35th birthday.
It's the moment when you experience real physical decline, and secondly when your choices start to make an impact. The most important difference is that the skin repairs itself much easier in your younger years, whereas the bad choices you make in your thirties will stick. Those things include excessive partying and drinking, sun exposure especially with low SPF!
You could survive it in your twenties but in your thirties it will stick. On the positive side this means that if you're extremely careful and healthy and do the right treatments, there is no reason why a 34 year old cannot look After 35, a woman's appearance will be more "grown up" and it's more about looking good for your age than looking like Legs show signs of aging.
Don't try to compete with the 20 year olds, keep it right above the knee, but take care of your appearance. Anna-I have two kid, 10 and 7, and was married for 13 years and am now single. I would agree with you about taking care of yourself in your 30s. I did not really drink or smoke at all in my 30s because I was raising children. I exercised regularly and am a slave to sunblock!
As far as the miniskirts go, I think that is a very antiquated point of view. Have you seen the photos of Helen Mirren in a bikini? As women, we should capitalize on what we have.
I have a friend who is 39 who has legs that make men weep. If you saw them in a lineup you would say she is 25 max. I think the key is to not show too much skin at once as we age. If you are wearing a short skirt, do not reveal cleavage, back skin, etc. I'm a twenty-five year old woman, but I have a hunch in a few years, the type of guys that aren't interested in me now will be interested in an older version of me. I don't know why, though i think it has something to do with your first point.
Andrew - you've emphasized a couple of times that provocative dressing does not necessarily make men see you as a slut as much as your behaviour does I somewhat disagree with this, because I think women's way of clothing says something about them.
But do you agree that women should change their style as they get older? I have noticed, in particular with American women, that a lot of girls wear very provocative clothes on nights out. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a prude and am supportive of showing off a feminine form, but not all assets at once. I have also noticed that a lot of women wear short and tight dresses, lots of cleavage etc in their 30s or even 40s.
For those who are single, I understand they want male attention, but I still don't think it's the way to go about it. I know some people feel that "if you look good for your age, show it off".
I belong to a group perhaps increasingly old-fashioned which believes that women should sometimes refrain of from showing all they've got at once. And as you get older, you just need to cover up more. You might have a great figure for your age and sometimes better than many younger girls, but a great figure at 35 will never look as good as a great figure at Legs age, which cannot be helped, and I just think that instead of a dress which barely covers her butt, she could choose one right above the knee.
It can still be fitted and flattering. To me, it just looks a bit desperate. As if they're terribly afraid men won't see enough. Men are seemingly not supposed to wonder what your thighs look like, they're supposed to know. I understand if men go "yay! I think you are judged by the way you're dressed and I know men notice the provocative factor. I don't think designer items will always be worth the price in male attention, but I've had men tell me many, many times that I look elegant and much more ladylike than what they are used to.
I might get attention from the same guys in a lycra minidress, but I think covering up filters out some perverts. Especially after a certain age, because as you say, a lot of men see older, single women as easy sex already and if you emphasize this with a dress showing off your bra, you'll be labeled 'party girl' IMO.
I agree that it looks bad when it looks desperate. And it is definitely possible for older women to dress sexy without looking desperate. I saw a woman in her late fourties the other day who was gorgeous - wearing a fairly short, tight dress, cleavage, high heels, had a great body, hair, everything.
Just because your legs for example show signs of aging does not mean it is inappropriate to show them off - they are still attractive. As long as you do so in a classy manner, I am a huge advocate of it.
Just like sluttiness, desperation or classiness alike are both conveyed more through posture, presence, and actions than they are through dress. Yes, of course there are limits to this, but I think they are "sluttier" looking limits than most conservative women think.
Yeah, I'll second that. I think that often an older woman who is dressing sexy looks a lot less desperate than her 20 year old counterpart. It's the younguns who look more desperate, particularly when they don't have the body or they can't even walk in the sky high heels they're wearing. A great figure is a great figure. Of course it looks different, doesn't mean its not good to have and doesn't follow one needs to cover up just because the 25 year old looks "better.
It's not like you either have to flaunt everything you have or alternatively shoot yourself. You can dress sexy, but appropriate to your age. A great figure is always great to have, I have NOT said otherwise, but women who dress in clothes which are obviously designed for women 10 or 20 years younger, do not look good.
I see 35 year old women in clothes I wouldn't be caught dead in, polyester fabrics and boobs and legs on display at the same time. Of course a woman past 30 looking like she's out to 'pull' IS more desperate than a 20 year old doing the same. So then what do men see in younger women? For example, why would a 26 year old date a 19 year old? Beauty is obviously the main motive, but another reason is openness. I am working on a new post about this, but older women can become closed, jaded and cold towards men because of the bad experiences they've had with them.
Young women are more naive, but this allows them to be more trusting and open. It is a differeny type of openness from that which many older women develop rooted in social comfort rather than ignorance but it has much the same effect; it is pleasant to be around.
I've found that in most younger women this openness is outweighed by their lack of depth; but in some rare instances they do have the maturity I am looking for. I am talking to one girl right now that is 21, beautiful and very open, but also smart and poised - mature well beyond her years.
She carries herself more like a year-old than a year-old, but without any of the bad effects I just described. This is extremely rare. Are you dating her seriously? I think we are all waiting for something serious to develop! With so many great women out there combined with your wisdom of the female species: Unfortunately she goes to school on the other side of the country.
I met her here when she was on summer break I'm in no rush though. There are other good girls out there too. There are heaps of girls like that in places were smart people inhabit like difficult to get into universities Just a tip ;. Apart from beauty, a lot of men like young women because many of them are naive, easy to mold and manipulate, where as an older woman who has been around the block a few times would be wiser.
I know from experience that a lot of men do not like intelligent, streetwise and knowledgible women. Haha love the sarcasm Guess since I'm 36 I must be invisible.. I get way more attention now than when I was in my 20s. And for all those posts about deteriorating bodies, mine is at it's peak and quite frankly I'm tired of telling my age as I.
I've had countless much younger men fall for me, regardless of sex. Even as young as 15 years younger. Don't get me wrong, I'm not naive. I wont always look this way but you know, I'll still be beautiful and grateful for the wisdom my years have brought. I have a few more questions: The age range - you say you mean a woman "older than the man", but since you are in your late twenties, I take this is about women around 35yrs?
What I mean is if the woman is older than that, she will perhaps be excluded for something serious due to lack of fertility? Or at the very least because she'll want children very soon.
If a man is 30 and wants children at some point which is most men I believe? Could you elaborate a bit more regarding personality? I am 21 and although I get attention from men of all ages, I match better with older men in terms of interest and just carrying a good conversation. It might be very much possible that you and some guys around 30 go for slightly older women because they are confident and more interesting, but I cannot see a 24 year old guy going for an older woman for anything but sex - after all, he is a baby personality-wise compared to her?
I can see it work with a guy who's 30 and a woman who's 35 or perhaps 40 if he doesn't care about children , but it generally takes longer for guys to grow up, so when I've seen couples with an older woman, she has been quite "childish". It ended anyway, I might add. What do think is an appropriate age different the other way around? Should young girls be as skeptical about older men as older women should be about younger men?
I believe older women should be VERY skeptical about younger men, I have a friend who's 38 and single and always go for guys 10 years younger. They usually date for a while until she declares she's in love and it all fades into nothing.
She juggles guys at a time usually, to increase her odds I believe.. Is it more likely that I'll be taken more seriously by older men as I turn 25 than I will at 21? I was out with a 34 year old man who genuinely wanted to be with me, but I'm afraid it's an exception.
If it is possible, how can I prove to older guys that I have more to offer than many girls my age and that I'm not just some little doll? You know, when a man stares at you and smiles irregardless of what you're saying? I am 27 so for me it means about 30 to Some but not all men are concerned with fertility.
Beauty is usually the first concern, then come the "practical" concerns about fertility. A man who is 30 and wants children would almost never get involved with a year-old because he knows he can still get girls in their twenties, or at least in their early thirties. It would be like buying a used car when you could get a perfectly good or better new one for the same price, or even less.
Harsh analogy maybe, but a true one when it comes to a man's mentality. Personality is a difficult thing - maybe an impossible thing - to generalize about, so I don't have too much more to say. But don't worry, guys that want to date older women are as rare as women that want to date younger men. If you go for a guy who is over, let's say, 32, when you are still only While you are probably attracted to his experience, wisdom, conversational skills, accomplishment, etc.
And he is undoubtedly wildly attracted to your beauty, you almost definitely will not be able to provide him the companionship that most men want from the women they will marry. I think you need to be worried about older men in proportion to how much older than you they are. See my answer to 2. As the age disparity grows, you can still fulfill his sexual needs perfectly, but his personal needs are more than you have the experience to fulfill. I do think that you will be taken more seriously by a year-old when you are 25 than you will be taken seriously by a year-old when you are I've been told - and my personal experience so far confirms - that people mature a lot during their twenties.
The farther through them you are, the more likely you are to be on a level plane with a guy in his thirties. I don't think you can force maturity though, so it will mostly be a waiting game for you.
I also know the "look" you are talking about. When I date girls in their early twenties which I continue to do, in hope of finding one that is more mature than her peers , I find myself listening to what they are saying while thinking "this girl has a lot of growing up to do. I have to add, the "look" I was referring to is not only about a mismatch.
I have found a guy to stare at my face or watch my mouth when I'm speaking while slightly smiling in a "she's so cute" sort of way. It doesn't have to be the fact that he finds me uninteresting - some guys don't even listen when you answer their questions or say where you went to school.
I experience that in different situations, but especially when a guy is a lot older and sought me out because he wanted someone young, and really don't care what I say or mean. I also think some men are prejudiced about younger girls and assume we have a pretty narrow set of interests and will react with shock if we happen to be up to date on politics etc. Dating older men is difficult because there is a social stigma around age difference and a very decent and intelligent guy will probably find it inappropriate and hesitate if a girl is too young.
Whereas those who openly approaches you can be a bit sleazy and really don't care about who you are. Do you think looks is always a very big part of it if a 40 year old man goes for a girl in her twenties?
I'm excited to see how that works out. But yes, it is particularly true when the man is much older. This does not mean, however, that he doesn't like her personality. Will it affect a man's opinion of a girl to know that she has dated much older men in the past?
Particularly if he is wealthy I know it is popular for some guys to refuse to see the appeal in successful men and call girls 'golddiggers', which is something we have to live with. Of course opinions vary, but in YOUR opinion, if a girl went out with a businessman, say of something, for a period of time while she was in her early twenties, would that shape your opinion of her? As in thinking she was in it for the money, that she was naive, thinking that he only had sex in mind etc.
Oh, while we're at the subject, can you add something to the list for later topics? How much do guys care about the type of guys a girl has dated before. I'm asking because some guys at HUS seem to not want a girl who's had 'alpha males' in the past. For sure some guys will care about a girl's exs who they were, for how long, etc. Just like jealousy because it is partially related , I don't think this is a male-female issue; it is a matter of the man's confidence and preferences. My guess is that most guys will care a little bit, but most will be content to know that you are with them now.
I personally don't give a shit who a girl has dated, but that is mostly because I am pretty conceited. If he was funnier than me, I just tell myself that I am smarter.
If not, would he be your bf but not sleep with you or is he willing to give u any indication he sees you as more than a friend, or any type of commitment, if not, walk and forget his feelings.
And we talk but barely any more. And I trust him with all my heart. And I think it has something to do with his ex. I need some help. Anybody have any advice? I need some advice I am confused by a guy. I met this guy online and me meet up one day as friends for dinner and a movie. But the other day I looked at his profile and he changed it to he is looking for a relationship.
Is he maybe not interested in me in that kind of way? Why is it so great in the beginning then the guy stops paying attention and stops noticing things that they used to notice or do??? What can i do to make him wanna pay attention? Got no car and alot of stresses in my life so… i dont knowwhat to do? Hi Eric and everyone! I really need some advice at the moment. I met this boy nearly 3 years ago on summer holidays. I was 16 then.
But we started writing every day, after some months he told me he loved me and the next summer we saw again. I do everything for him even he hurts me every time. I just hope this would change some day and we can finally be together, I wanted to go to study to his country next year, at first he wanted too but now he said it is better I am not going because then we would have to be together forever and it is too soon.
Hi M, you need to move on…. You owe it to yourself and your future children to find a man who makes effort for you because that will show that he will make effort for you and your children together. The demon you are dealing with is yourself and your addiction to this particular man. Pray or do Buddhist chanting or whatever spiritual device you can use to strengthen your spirit and get over him for now.
Force yourself to date other people and right now especially make your focus getting a good education and a good well paying job so you can be financially stable and independent and be a prize that any sane man would want to win.
When we are together we act like we are dating. We always kiss and do other things couples do. He asks me to go trucking and to help him work on his truck and semi even though he knows I know nothing, we alway give each other massages and the people I consider to be like second parents to me are like second parents to him. I have lost all interest in all other guys because of my feelings for him.
What should I do and how should I ask him. What do you want? If you want to have a boyfriend who is committed to you, then move on. Yeah, yeah, yeah, all that great stuff: Your problem is your fear of losing him. That fear is your gut instinct telling you to run for your life because this guy is gonna tear you a new one in your heart if you let him.
Your problem is your addiction to him. Move on, find a guy who would be proud to call you his girlfriend. Day after we slept together and we decided it will be one time thing. But now i have developed feelings for him and started liking him and we both live in different cities so i need your advice. Should i say him about my feelings or what should i do.. Let him come after you. Let him make the first move.
I know, but at least save yourself more time and grief and move on asap. I met a guy online 2 years ago.. It started out whitty and fun but then he had a death in his family. He was devasted andwe got very close through ttext and phone. I am hurt and feel like I am questioning if we should have slept together…. He got what he wanted? I know he knows better then this…. What the hell is he thinking? Just think about the good times you guys shared together.
Which ever way try not to think about it.. Was in a relationship with a guy for a little over a year. He decided to back off this past May due to some life circumstances mainly mine. That broke my heart, but I mirrored him. He did stay in my life mostly by phone, but he dropped the pet names except for honey and sweetie. Twice was for sex. I ended up not feeling very good about having sex with him afterward, those two times.
I know guys like to leave the relationship as-is. How can I get this across to him without making him want to run the other direction?
Hey Linda, Remember actions speak louder than words. Be nice, be cool, be fun, be friendly. They listen to actions. Get your life in order and date other people. If not, then good riddance to bad rubbish. When men are like this you have to just nip it in the bud, no matter how much it hurts. There are plenty of men I hope, at least , who are mature and want a relationship!
One of them…I had a sordid messed up relationship and demanded commitment. He finally did, but it was such a bad match things went downhill. I recently met this awesome guy…we were going to start something casual my request. It made me so mad because I wanted true casual sex with no strings attached, HE was the one who started saying shit like: I feel so comfortable with you…blah blah.
I had a manchild on my hands. Ladies there are men who want a relationship! Me and the guy who i met online, we met the first time we just hang out for dinner and went to the bar listening music.
And the next day i met him again in the other bar with his friends. And his friends left, so only me and him stayed until morning then we came to watch sunrise and came to his apartment, im kinda like him but i told him nothing will happen ok so we just slept and he put his hand over me a bit until morning and sex happened.
And we keep hanging out together, sometimes only us sometimes with his friends, and all the time we meet not only about sex, we enjoy spending time together like talking, go to play games, go to bar and chilling out …etc etc… But i often see him go on dating side, also he told me that he doesnt wanna date because he want freedom…so i just keep being with him because i hope somethings will change oneday.
And day by day, he keeps saying that why am i always smile and happy… we are together about 1 month now, he doesnt text me a lot just some little chat for a day, he said he doesnt wanna text it just like teenager.
And i wanna stop that because my feeling for him is stronger everyday so im scared that i will end up getting hurt so yesterday i told him i wanna stop, we will be friend and no hug, no kiss, and no sex.
And he asked me if we hanging out like friends will im sad if he talked to other girls, he said if he see i talked to other gus he may not like it. He confess to me that he afraid that if we are in a really relationship like a real couple he might get bored quickly, its not because im not interesting or whatever but all girls he have dated that always happen to those girls and he broke up them, he said im a great person so he doesnt want that happen to me so thats why he said he doesnt wanna date me, he satisfied with this situation and he understand that im not satisfied with it.
After the chat we met and talk, he said he respect my decision because he didnt want me to feel bad because of him, i dont deserve it. He told that when he was in the bar waiting for me, have another girl come to talk to him like flirting him and when i come the girl asked him am i his gf then he doesnt know why he said yes straight ahead, said that he doesnt want make me sad.
So after convo he said im the one told him about stopping so he will let me decide, he doesnt want me to think he is using me or whatever, then i said we will be friends but no hugging no kissing no sex… Then he asked me if i saw him talked with orher girls will im sad, i said yes, and he said if he saw me talk to other guys he might not like it but maybe he will think its ok, he said its my life i can do what i want.
And he said he doesnt like dating because he was in relationship about 4 years with ex gf and its always where are u what are u doing!!! And he told that when we was in bed cuddling he felt really good and he always think that im so cool but inte morning when he wake up go to work he just feel like he wanna be alone, when he go to work he is busy and he didnt think about me or miss me.
I feel im so weak i wish that first he said ok lets stop, dont say anything else so i could stop easily. And then we slept together after.
I feel so confusing now, i dont want to be like this but i have no power to move on. Please everybody give me an advice, what should i do, what do you think about this guy? Thank you for reading this. Stop being wishy washy and stick to your word.
Decide what you want, announce it to him, and then go about your life. You need some time apart, a few months. Wow v interesting article, it has been a while, no body is posting here, would I have a response to my story if I posted. Feeling a lot better now.
And I do agree about holding out on the sex. I asked him in a text and he hasnt replied. I just think it would be a lot easier for him to say online that he wanted only dates or no commitment and it would have saved this conversation! He sent ne this message this morning- what a waste of time! I just went thru this with a guy I met online.
I wonder if it was the same site? Or the same guy? And trust me when I say this…run away from this guy for good or u will wind up hurt and confused like I am now. My guy was so sweet and so passionate whenever we were together that i ignored all the red flags and believe me looking back now I realized I should have seen it was coming.
We never fought …got along great.. Wanted to meet my friends.. Slept over by my house even a few times when I had to work.. Then last Monday night we had our first fight I guess and since then has not returned texts or calls. Just like that he disappeared from my life. He kept saying when I start getting more money we are gonna go out and have fun. I wish I wld have just listened to my gut when I felt Luke things were moving a little too fast. Hey everyone, I would really like some advice.
We got on really well, however the first time we met we had sex, which I know wasnt the best idea. He was full of suggestions about whete to go and when. We really had a great time and the sex was amazing too. The last time we met we went to a bar where I used to work and there were some people there that I knew.
Maybe he didnt like this. We had dinner the night before, Monday and that night Tuesday, went to that bar. The rest of the week his texts tapered off and did notnhear much from him until late evening and him saying he was busy at work. No text at all Saturday and by Sunday I asked him if everything was ok. He suggested meeting up but I refused asking what he wanted to say.
He eventually called asking what it was that I wanted out of this. I said that I thought we got on well and that I would like to see where it goes. He sounded stressed and replied that he wasnt one to go from girl to girl and always ended up in relationships and that they ended in disaster.
He said he was not in a place to commit. I was genuinely shocked. I said ok and bye. I later text to say that I hoped I hadnt put pressure on him and it seemed over exaggerated, and did he want to meet and chat. He replied that if it seemed over exaggerated that he was just tryi g to be honest, he apologied for not bringing up the conversation sooner and that he did not want to get involved in a relationship right now.
I asked if he felt pressure from me and he said he was starting to feel like things were going that way and pressure was starting to bear. I really dont know what to think and feel like why would he write that on his profile if he didnt want dates to go further? I feel like its my fault. I really dont feel like i was overbearing and it just seemed to be going normally and naturally.
I even didnt reply to all of his texts in the last week and tried but play it cool but I think he had already started to retreat at that stage. I would love some feedback. Happens all the time. So he suggested on that date that we go out again on the weekend. And to be honest, most men out there behave this way. If you can, hold off for a couple of months with any guy you meet and see how he behaves.
Honestly 9 times out of 10 guys are going take the easy route and go with a girl who will sleep with them and put up with their lazy, unreliable ways. If he said no, you could have walked away and saved yourself from investing in the guy. If he said yes, you could have just dated and got to know him. Third, he did not want to meet your friends, that is not your fault, it is based on his goals for keeping it casual.
Last, if you want a relationship then you should have one before getting physical, when the physical comes before the emotional connection you are left with a superficial connection that might mean little to a man but a lot to you. Move on to the next fish in the sea. I hope I am posting in the right place as I really need a bit of advice. I have been seeing a guy long distance for about 5 months now. Things were going well and we saw each other most weekends. We speak via skype and text almost everyday.
In the past few weeks though I think I have put out a bit of a needy vibe and he has picked up on it. We have chatted about where things are heading a lot. I have told him that I am happy with the way things are at the moment and all I do want is to spend a bit of time with him, go on dates etc.
I think that things need to progress naturally. He wants to be selfish with his time and not have to answer to anyone or consider anyone either. He said that perhaps we should take a bit of time and space to think things through… He said that perhaps he needs the time to stop freaking out and I need the time to think if think if this is what I really want right now.
I said that I would respect his time and space and he can contact me when he is ready. It lasted a day, he contacted me the next day to say that he was sorry if he has upset me and cares about me and that he is not promising anything but will take some time and space to think things through. Again I agreed that this was a good idea and that I would respect his time and space….. Now, I will continue to give him his space and time and wait for him to contact me again….
Am I wasting my time here? Am I right in giving him time and space? Do I bring it up again or do I just leave it and carry on keeping the conversation light? Do I suggest him coming down for a weekend again in a couple of weeks? So confused as to what to do, so any advice would be great. I think you are trying to be all cool and give him space but you are secretly hoping that by doing that he actually commits to you in the future and I think he is picking up on this.
If you are seeking a relationship then I would seriously consider dating a man who says he is interested in that from the onset. Otherwise, you put your heart at risk. I am talking to a Guy and right now we are just friends. He wants to continue to build our friendship though, because he is hoping it will lead to a relationship between us. I guess my question is here is, How long will it take before he moves on emotionally?
Will we have our chance? Or should I just leave it as a friendship? Or should I just give gimme time to heal and let things take their course? However, building a friendship means you are dating other men, you are not invested into the relationship because it is a friendship. It also means you release any expectations that you could ever even become more than friends.
Nobody here can possibly know how long it will take for this guy to move on emotionally, or even if when he does you will still be friends, or he will want a relationship with you. These are the unknowns of life and love. All you have for certain now is a man who would like to be frirends with you. If you want to be friends and release expecations for what you want this to be — a relationship, then be friends.
As far as friendship it is a great place to start a possible relationship, but you need to take it for what it is, it is a friendship and everything else is unknown. As it is a friendship you date others and let the cards fall where they may. Two times I had a fwb for 6months I was getting emotionally attach to him. Until finally after does six months I just stop having that strong emotion for him. I live on a small island call caye caulker and I saw him an I jus turn my face to ignore seeing him.
And this ass still has the courage to stare at my ass n watch me from head to toe!!! He then apologized to me later in the night about everything and said he was a mean person. Thanks for your advice. Self love is really powerful, though it might be difficult especially for girls. However, once you realised life is still great without him, everything naturally turns out fine. Key is really to be in control of your own emotions. Hi,,, I feel cofused too much now.
I met a guy one month ago. We have dating and we like each other. We have know each other very well, I understand its not possible to feel love so quickly for him. I think we have make relationship from the begining, I ever heard he say he is my boyfriend. But after we have argued too much he said we only close friend, he still not fell love with me because our mind still not fit.
He like me by body much, he feel good and happy when he with me, and He like and love when we make sex. He asked me to be only close friend until we love each other, but now I was fall in love with him, unfortunately He just accept me as close friend. Does he love me? She wants to stop this cycle without disapearing on him. What is the best way to communicate this without going MIA or slow fading? I am still trying to figure it out. Hi Jennifer, So what I did was break the cycle.
I had a great time with the guy and thought we really got close but after that nothing changed so I realized if I stayed in it then it would just continue on that pattern. Wow Amy and Jen…sounds familiar to me as well.. I went thru a similar situation with the guy I was seeing and we kinda went from casual to him calling me his girlfriend and spending a week and half straight together.. Well the fairytale didnt last too long and last Monday night he stopped returning texts and calls and I had just seen him that morning.
Of course I sent him a few texts asking what was wrong and even went as far to apologizing for something I thought I did wrong and thought he just needed space since hehad spent the last 10 days in a row with me. I even asked him flat out in a text is it over?
And that was yesterday.. I am now left with no answers and no closure and nothing but confusion and hurt! I did not see this coming and I should have. Just silence like I meant nothing. I will not let him treat me this way and def not gna contact him again. Sorry about that Vicki. But basically, the guy is a nut job and its not your problem.
He just did a good job of appearing to be a sane and stable person but he is not. Cut your losses and move on. Its like buying a car and it looks all nice and new etc, and it runs really good for a bit and then it stops running, and it turns out that the engine was flawed from the time it left the factory.
Nothing you can do, but just cut your losses and move on. We all get tricked from time to time. I texted the guy i like who is also one of my close friends that i liked him and that if he didnt like me back it was fine and i wanted to hang out with him as much before he leaves for 10 months. I want him to be honest but he hasnt texted me back after 4 days and he has read the text. When i saw him he acted like he didnt read the text but didnt talk to me as much at all.
Dont know what i should do. I like this guy.. I know him so well and he knows me just as well. We talked and flirted from April until a few days ago I confessed my full attraction to him!!
It was nerve wrecking waiting for his reply. I was so excited to see what he had to say, though it was not what I was hoping for.. Another thing is, the weekend before I texted him that we ended up sleeping in his bed together cause the couch was taken and we kissed but I told him sex was not happening and he was completely okay with that! He continued kissing my back and just being sweet! I need a llil help, maybe some advice??
It would mean a lot! What should I do diss him or take a chance to see how our relationship would end up? I have been in an on and off situation with flirt man for two years — The first year of our relationship we were together all the time, his son was away at university and he was getting over a 12 year marriage where he wife ended it — After his son came back, shortly after the dynamic of our relationship changed.
He became distant and when I called him on it and other things like text messages from several women, at all times of days — and weekends — things came to a boil and it was over one week before my birthday, and one day before a gala we were attending for first time together.
After few months no contact I would get his text message asking how are you? Look at who his friends are. If he surrounds himself with men that are losers and women chasers and openly say that they are not into having a decent wonderful woman with them, that they are into filth — you will not be welcome and if you are with him in their company they will make sure to say and do things that will provoke you and drive you away — this then leaves him free to join their pity party of idiots — 3.
If this person goes away with you to paradise and he says something like this is great!
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